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Bardzo, bardzo piękne i smutne zarazem słowa. :(
Wiersz Barbary Borzymowskiej:



„Modlitwa konia z transportu”

Mój wiatronogi Boże koni
Czy ty naprawdę widzisz wszystko?
Strach, ból i głód, i krew, i śmierć?
Nie ma nikogo z mojej stajni i nie znam drogi na pastwisko
Bardzo się boję, Panie mój
Tutaj tak ciasno jest i ciemno
I taki bardzo jestem sam,
Choć tyle koni jedzie ze mną
Boże, z ogonem bujnym i grzywą gęstą
Ja przecież jestem
Przecież byłem
Na Twoje podobieństwo
Nikt by w to teraz nie uwierzył
Nic z tego nie zostało
Czterokopytny Boże, spraw
By umieranie nie bolało
Jeszcze o jedno Cię poproszę
Nim wszystko będzie końcem
Niechaj na przekór wyśnię sen
Że galopuję w słońce
I pędzę wprost w promieni blask
Pękają chmury w niebie
A ja nie czuję więcej nic
I mknę i gnam do Ciebie


N cze 03, 2007 22:35
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Dołączył(a): Pn maja 29, 2006 12:06
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Przepraszam, że tak późno, ale...
JakubN napisał(a):
filippiarz napisał(a):
Dodatkowo, ciekawostka ze świata ahinsy: jak zabijając krowy dostąpić oświecenia? Ano tak: http://forum.medytacja.net/phpBB2/viewt ... 9757#39757
Odnośnie linka, który umieściłeś, to z działaniem podobnym nie zgodziłoby się większość buddystów, szczególnie z tredycji Mahajany.

Zen jest odłamem mahajany.

JakubN napisał(a):
Zresztą, było nie było, największy autorytet żyjący w tej dziedzinie (...) The Dalai Lama

Autorytet czego? Dietetyki? :P Żartuję, pewnie chodzi Ci o to, że to jest jakiś autorytet moralny... Dalajlama jest owszem, bardzo szanowaną osobą, jak każdy oświecony, ale autorytetem to on jest wyłącznie dla członków swojej szkoły - Gelug, której przewodzi. To jest jedna z kilku szkół tybetańskich, a chyba wiesz, że buddyzm to nie tylko Tybet.

Za to niekwestionowany autorytet wszystkich buddystów - Budda, pozwalał mnichom jeść mięso pod warunkiem, że było ono darem i pochodziło od zwierząt, które nie zostały zabite specjalnie dla mnicha. Bo etyka jest tu taka - nie wolno świadomie doprowadzać do cierpienia i śmierci żyjących istot, jedzenie mięsa samo w sobie nie jest złem.

_________________
"Diabolus enim et alii daemones a Deo quidem natura creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali"
Obrazek
"Inter faeces et urinam nascimur".


N cze 03, 2007 22:50
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Hmmm, myślę, że na szczęście [bo można było wybrać gorzej] Dalajlama jest autorytetem moralnym nie tylko dla szkoły Gelug, ale dla znacznie szerszego kręgu odbiorców. Jeśli chodzi o Buddę i jedzenie mięsa, to pięknie pisze o tym Philip Kapleau w książce "Cherish All Life" Książka jest do ściągnięcie w PDF z netu tutaj:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/lifecherish.pdf
Wg koncepcji Mahajany wygląda to tak [przepraszam za to, że tylko kilka zdań, ale tekstu nie da się przekleić metodą kopiuj-wklej, więc wklejam kawałek PrintScreena]. Na pytanie, czy Budda usankcjonował jedzenie mięsa, Mahajana odpowiada:

Obrazek

Więcej można dowiedzieć się z książki, do której ściągnięcia i przeczytania zachęcam.


N cze 03, 2007 23:10
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Aha, jeszcze o historii z krową, to trochę grzebiąc na forum buddyjskim, niejako w postaci komentarza do niej znalazłem parę ciekawych opinii, które być może warto znać:

Kilgore Trout napisał(a):
"Jeśli kierunek jest jasny, zabijanie nie jest problemem."

To akurat cytat mistrza Wu Bonga i mozna mi zarzucic zem go brutalnie pozbawil kontekstu ale tego typu wypowiedzi w buddyzmie zen pojawiaja sie w roznych formach dosc czesto. Jest przecie nawet nauka o czlowieku ktory krowy zabijal. A ja nie wiem zupelnie jak sie tu odnalezc. Czuje ze w tym punkcie zen zaczyna niebezpiecznie balansowac w strone skrajnego moralnego relatywizmu i nie dziwota ze potem mistrzowie zen (mistrzowie! a wiec bylo nie bylo ludzie majacy za soba lata praktyki) nawoluja do wojny ("Zen na wojnie". Pojawia sie przeciwnik - bam bam - przeciwnik nie zyje) no bo co w koncu: "jesli kierunek jest jasny (co to znaczy? ze dla pozytku wszystkich istot? kazdy terrorysta jest pewien ze dziala w imie powszechnego dobra), zabijanie nie jest problemem" - powiedzcie mi w takim razie, gdzie pobladzili ci mistrzowie?

Ewidentnie cos mi tu nie gra. Zabijanie jako forma praktyki? Czujace istoty jako narzedzia (!) do osiagniecia oswiecenia? "zabijanie nie jest problemem"? Naprawde nie jest?


Nezz napisał(a):
"Jeśli kierunek jest jasny, zabijanie nie jest problemem."

Faktycznie można różnie te słowa interpretować. Fundamentaliści islamscy też mają jasny kierunek, bo działają (wg. swojego mniemania) w imię religii, Boga, itp.
Bezpieczniej powiedzieć że zabijanie jest złe w każdej sytuacji, ale tak nie jest, bo zdarzaja się takie przypadki, że zabicie kogoś jest mniejszym złem, itp.
Tak w ogóle to rozsądniej byłoby przytoczyć tutaj całą wypowiedź Mistrza, a nie tylko jej fragment. (bo w tym momencie nie wiadomo np. co ma autor na myśli mówiąc "jasny kierunek")


monaszi napisał(a):
Gdzieś tu na forum czytałam opowieść o dwu mnichach, którzy idąc spotkali nad rzeką kobietę. Jeden z nich ją przeniósł a drugi oburzony zapytał go jak on mógł. Ten pierwszy odpowiedział - ja ją przeniosłem i zostawiłem, a ty ją niesiesz dalej (to moje streszczenie w wolnym stylu ).
Każde słowo do którego się przywiążemy niesiemy ze sobą jak ten drugi mnich kobietę.
Jeśli zaczniemy przywiązywać się do słów mistrzów to stracimy kierunek, który one pokazują. Kilgore Trout - mojej wypowiedzi nie kierowałam jedynie w Twoją stronę (jeśli w jakiś sposób poczułeś się urażony stwierdzeniem, że zdanie to wyrwane z kontekstu). Piszę o sobie, o tym co jest moim problemem i dzielę się tym z innymi, bo być może ktoś ma tak samo (oczywiście, że uważam, że każdy ma tak samo , ale próbuję złapać jasny kierunek ).

Jeśli chodzi o relatywizm moralny - z tym jest wielki problem, zawsze jest problem z oceną moralną przywódców duchowych. Bo kto ma ich oceniać - w sumie tylko inni przywódcy ale:
1) ogólnie mistrzowie powinni unikać oceniania
2) społeczność mistrzów jest trochę... mała(?)
Nie wiem, zupełnie nie mam pomysłu na złoty środek. Pewnie lepiej pytać, czemu Wu Bon tak powiedział, niż skończyć jako buddyjski mnich z karabinem...
Tylko wydaje mi się, że mając jasny kierunek to drugie nam nie grozi


majur napisał(a):
Jeśli kierunek jest jasny - co to znaczy?
Moim zdaniem jasny kierunek oznacza, że posiadasz wielkie współczucie - współczucie bodhisatwy.
Jeśli posiadasz współczucie bodhisatwy to działasz dla dobra wszystkich istot. Dlaczego miałbyś więc je zabijać?
Oczywiście idąc ulicą, jedząc, a może nawet śpiąc zabijamy mnóstwo istot nawet o tym nie wiedząc. Bodajże Dogen o tym pisał, że życie jest zabijaniem innych istot. Co możesz więc zrobić? Przypuszczam, że codziennie pozbawiamy kogoś życia. Mamy więc problem - łamiemy wskazanie.
Ale jeśli posiadasz współczucie, to twoje intencje są takie, że działasz dla dobra innych. Jeśli posiadasz takie intencje to jest OK.
W skrajnym wypadku może się zdarzyć, że ten kto ma jasny kierunek może być w sytuacji że będzie zmuszony zabić człowieka. Wiem, że gdzieś w sutrach była opisana taka sytuacja, że ktoś zabił człowieka który dla zysku chciał zabić 300 osób i Budda go usprawiedliwił. Ale to są skrajności.
Jeśli masz jasny kierunek to działasz dla dobra innych, nie zabijasz więc innych. Nie ma więc sprzeczności.
Ale zgadzam się z tym, że ktoś może zinterpretować to zdanie po swojemu i np. popierać wojny.
Cóż, znaczy to, że tak na prawdę nie posiada jasnego kierunku (współczucia). Dlatego też Budda dał nam wskazania.


To tylko kilka postów w pierwszej strony tematu o zabijaniu.


Pn cze 04, 2007 0:33
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Dołączył(a): Pn maja 29, 2006 12:06
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JakubN napisał(a):
To tylko kilka postów w pierwszej strony tematu o zabijaniu.

Bo to temat kontrowersyjny :)

_________________
"Diabolus enim et alii daemones a Deo quidem natura creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali"
Obrazek
"Inter faeces et urinam nascimur".


Pn cze 04, 2007 6:43
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:D Racja. Tylko ja od dłuższego czasu się zastanawiam, czy kontrowersja w temacie dotyczy tego, czy zabijanie zwierząt na pożywienie jest właściwe/niewłaściwe, czy może bardziej tego, że nasze przyzwyczajenia są tak silne, iż każą nam wyszukiwać powody uzasadniające obecne, mięsne status quo.


Pn cze 04, 2007 8:42
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To link do jednego z najsłynniejszych filmików przedsawiających realia życia zwierząt hodowlanych. Oczywiście przedstawia warunki w USA, ale w Europie sytuacja wcale nie wygląda o wiele lepiej...

http://www.meat.org/


Pn cze 04, 2007 23:55
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Dołączył(a): Pn maja 29, 2006 12:06
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http://forum.medytacja.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4974
Poczytaj wątek - znajdziesz sporo rzeczy przydatnych Twoim poglądom, ale ja oczywiście tendencyjnie ;-) przytoczę taki fragment: (fragment rozmowy z 88letnim wegetarianinem Rinpocze (tytuł honorowy wysokiego lamy buddyjskiego):
Cytuj:
Question: Do you know other lamas who are vegetarian?

Rinpoche: I know many of them from Tibet. There are Nyingmapa, Sakyapa, and Gelukpa vegetarians in Tibet. Compared to the many meat-eating lamas, vegetarian lamas are very few, though. I’m 88 and during my experience I have come across many lamas in Kham, Amdo—all parts of Tibet—who don’t eat meat.
Czyli prosto po Polsku: Jest wielu lamów wegetarian, ale nie są oni specjalną większością - wiele lamów je mięso.
Ogólnie, chodzi mi o to, że obligatoryjny wegetarianizm w buddyzmie jest cechą niektórych tylko dróg, o specyficznym, bardzo silnym pro-życiowym nastawieniu. Dlatego sugeruję, żeby nie równać całego buddyzmu z wegetarianizmem, bo pomimo, że jest to w nim cecha częsta i mile widziana, nie jest ona jednak cechą będącą wyznacznikiem całej religii i podlega różnorakiej interpretacji i różnemu nauczaniu, nawet w ramach tej samej tradycji.

_________________
"Diabolus enim et alii daemones a Deo quidem natura creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali"
Obrazek
"Inter faeces et urinam nascimur".


Wt cze 05, 2007 10:19
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Dołączył(a): Pn maja 29, 2006 12:06
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Łał :o: http://www.buddyzm.edu.pl/cybersangha/page.php?id=420
Cytuj:
(...) Jednak nie każdy mnich musi być wegetarianinem, np. XIV Dalaj Lama jada mięso.

_________________
"Diabolus enim et alii daemones a Deo quidem natura creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali"
Obrazek
"Inter faeces et urinam nascimur".


Wt cze 05, 2007 10:23
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To ja może postram się wyklarować całą sprawę. W buddyzmie nie na absolutnego nakazu wegetarianizmu. Jedyną religią, która obligatoryjnie od wszystkich swoich członków wymaga wegatarianizmu jest dżinizm [jainism]. Natomiast buddyzm bardzo mocno promuje wegetarianizm, uznając że jest on jedyną drogą bodhisattwy [Mahajana] i że wynika bezpośrednio z bodhiczitty.

W samym buddyzmie bardzo wiele autorytetów uznaje wegetarianizm jako conditio sine qua non praktykowania ahimsy. Na ofocjalnej stronie Dalajlamy możemy przeczytać, że:
Cytuj:
However, during visits outside of Dharamsala, His Holiness is not necessarily vegetarian.

Jest to jednak wyjątek od reguły. W jednym z wywiadów Dalajlama mówi:
Cytuj:
RD: Your assistant says you are half vegetarian. How can one be “half vegetarian?”

Dalai Lama: [Laughs.] In the early 1960s, I became a vegetarian, and for almost two years I remained a strict vegetarian. But then I developed hepatitis, and I returned to my previous diet; for a while it would be vegetarian one day, nonvegetarian the next.

My kitchen is now totally vegetarian. But that doesn’t mean I am completely vegetarian, for when I visit places, occasionally I take nonvegetarian…

Natomiast sam Tenzin Gyatso gdzie tylko może podkreśla, że wegetarianizm jest właściwą drogą i wspiera go [co może być poczytywane jako swego rodzaju niekonsekwencja]. Takich wypowiedzi jest wiele, przytoczę tylko kilka.
Dalajlama napisał(a):
"In order to satisfy one human stomach, so many lives are taken away. We must promote vegetarianism. It is extremely important."
-Live in a Better Way: Reflections on Truth, Love and Happiness (pg 68)

"Killing is not right. Killing animals to eat them is not a civilised thing to do, but carnivores exist in nature and in many places, humans have to subsist on non-vegetarian food for reasons beyond their control. But wherever possible, vegetarianism must be practised."

“I do not see any reason why animals should be slaughtered to serve as human diet when there are so many substitutes. After all, man can live without meat...”

"Whenever I visit a market and see the chickens crowded together in tiny cages that give them no room to move around and spread their wings and the fish slowly drowning in the air, my heart goes out to them. People have to learn to think about animals in a different way, as sentient beings who love life and fear death. I urge everyone who can to adopt a compassionate vegetarian diet."
The Dalai Lama , Fund for the Animals speech 1998


Jeśli zaś chodzi o innych znanych buddystów i mięso, to zdecydowanym przeciwnikiem żywienia się kosztem cierpienia i śmierci czujących istot jest choćby XVII Karmapa, zwierzchnik linii Karma Kagyu:
Cytuj:
H.H. Orgyen Trinle Dorje, Karmapa XVII*, is vegetarian since a few years. At January 3, 2007, he made a strong statement against eating meat within his monasteries and centers. With immediate effect:
No meat is to be prepared in the kitchen of any Kagyu Monastery or Centre.
No one is to be involved in the business of buying and selling meat – for all of his students this practice must stop.
There is to be no killing of animals on Kagyu premises.
Karmapa is aware of monks in robes going to buy meat and does not want to see this ever again.

His Holiness also quoted spiritual masters from the past who had condemned the practice of using Tsok (offerings during a gathering) as an excuse for eating meat and drinking alcohol. Leaving absolutely no room for interpretation, Karmapa said that anyone who uses meat and alcohol as Tsok is not part of Karmapa’s lineage.**

oraz

"Any monastery that belongs to Kamtsang Kagyu, the monastery kitchen cannot and should not make any food with meat. And if you bring meat and cook it in the monastery kitchen, then that means that you are not taking me as your teacher, you do not belong to Karma Kagyu. And there is nothing to discuss about that. That’s finished. That is very important.”
- przemówienie z 27 grudnia 2006 r. w Bodhgaya


A oto jeszcze kilka ;-) znanych wypowiedzi znanych i cenionych boddystów dotyczących jedzenia mięsa. Oczywiście wybranych stronniczo, żeby pokazać, jak silne jest skrzydło pro-zwierzęce w buddyzmie:

Cytuj:
"Being a vegetarian makes it easier for us to increase our loving kindness and compassion."
~ Zen Master Thich Thanh Tu
Udumbara Flowers, Book II

"Every individual who eats flesh food, whether an animal is killed expressely for him or not, is supporting the trade of slaughtering and contributing to the violent deaths of harmless animals."
~ Roshi Philip Kapleau
To Cherish All Life


"It is a feeble compassion that pulls up short where self-interest begins."
~ Norm Phelps
The Great Compassion: Buddhism & Animal Rights

"Rather than encouraging apathy through submissive responses, let us deliver the message loudly and clearly, that needles killing and suffering is wrong."
~ Bodo Balsys
Ahimsa : Buddhism and the Vegetarian Ideal

"In his final teachings before he physically left this earth, the Buddha foresaw that a situation would arise in the future where those speaking in his name would pervert his Doctrine and encourage meat consumption. So here, in this great Nirvana Sutra, he lays down his last will and testament on the matter: in no circumstances should one eat meat or fish " nor animal corpses, found in the jungle, for instance " nor even accept from a donor a meal which contains an abundance of flesh-foods. The very contact of other food with meat is deemed defiling and requires purification of the food by water. It is quite evident from all this that the Buddha in no way condoned the eating of meat and was keen for his monastic and lay followers to abjure the uncompassionate practice of meat eating and follow the pure path of vegetarian Mahayana. In this, we would be wise and benevolent to follow him."
- Dr. Tony Page

Buddha - Self: The "Secret" Teachings of the Buddha in the Mahaparinirvana Sutra, Vol. 2
"When we bring mindfulness to the dinner table, it suffuses the rest of our life as well. We become more sensitive to the well-being of animals, of the environment, and of ourselves and our families. We are more aware of the choices we make in all areas of our life. We enjoy food more, know that, while the obtaining of even plant foods necessitates some suffering, the amount and kind of suffering is dramatically reduced when we leave meat off our shopping lists and out of our kitchens. We become more aware of how meat consumption feeds violence and anger."
- Kate Lawrence
Mindfulness in the Marketplace: Compassionate Responses to Consumerism

"When we have acquired an awareness of the fact that all beings have been our mothers, and when this awareness is constant, the result will be that when we see meat, we will be conscious of the fact that it is the flesh of our own mothers. And, far from putting it in our mouths and eating it, we will be unable to even take it into our hands or smell its odor."
- Shabkar Tsogdruk Rangdrol
Food of Bodhisattvas: Buddhist Teachings on Abstaining from Meat

"The Buddha's teaching leads us to the realization that we must always strive to harm no sentient being, human or nonhuman, whether or not it is in our selfish interest to do so."
~ Norm Phelps
The Great Compassion: Buddhism & Animal Rights

"The eating of meat extinguishes the seed of great compassion."~
The Buddha
Mahaparinirvana Sutra

"Ultimately the case for shunning animal flesh does not rest on what the Buddha allegedly said or didn't say. What is does rest on is our innate moral goodness, compassion, and pity which, when liberated, lead us to value all forms of life. It is obvious, then, that willfully to take life, or through the eating of meat indirectly to cause others to kill, runs counter to the deepest instincts of human beings."
~ Roshi Philip Kapleau
To Cherish All Life

"There are three ways of killing that we, as Buddhists, have to restrain: either by directly killing, indirectly killing, or rejoicing to see others be killed. Not only does this apply to human life, it should be also extended to all living beings."
~ Zen Master Thich Thanh Tu
Buddhism for Beginners

"The eating of meat cannot in any way be considered to be helpful to the practice of the dharma, neither can the slaughter of animals be considered to be consistent with the Buddhist teachings of compassion (metta , ahimsa , and karuna ), of loving kindness, or of the nature of the evocation of the enlightenment-mind. The cruelties associated with the slaughter of the animal kingdom for human consumption, the pain, fear, and distress suffered by the animals in the entire process of being fattened for butchering, as well as the environmental disasters wreaked upon our planet through the meat industry, are very well documented, and should be understood by all who claim to be developing bodhicitta, or who wish to."
~ Bodo Balsys
Ahimsa : Buddhism and the Vegetarian Ideal

"Meat eating and a compassionate religion do not go hand in hand."
~ Bodo Balsys
Ahimsa : Buddhism and the Vegetarian Ideal

"One of the greatest obstacles to the birth of bodhichitta in our minds is our craving for meat."
- Shabkar Tsogdruk Rangdrol
Food of Bodhisattvas: Buddhist Teachings on Abstaining from Meat

"If there is no meat eater, there will be no animal killer"
- Shabkar Tsogdruk Rangdrol
Food of Bodhisattvas: Buddhist Teachings on Abstaining from Meat

"To put the flesh of an animal into one's belly makes one an accessory after the fact of its slaughter, simply because if cows, pigs, sheep, fowl, and fish, to mention the most common, were not eaten they would not be killed."
~ Roshi Philip Kapleau
To Cherish All Life


"We can do no greater harm that to kill another sentient being. Killing is the ultimate expression if indifference to the well-being of others. All, except in the most extreme circumstances, cherish life. In the contemporary hell of the modern slaughterhouse animals cry out and cower in terror when they realize that their life is nearing a premature end. All beings, except in the most desperate circumstances, try to escape death."
~ Bodhipaksa
Vegetarianism

"One is not a great one because one defeats or harms other living beings. One is so called because one refrains from defeating or harming other living beings."
~ The Buddha
Dhammapada, Ch. 19 (15/270), Max Muller, Trans.

"The Buddha said time and time again in the sutras such things as: "My followers should give up all evil actions that directly or indirectly injure others." One may disregard his words; one may consciously lead others to commit evil in provisioning oneself with meat. One may think, "There are always skillful means in the sutras and tantras that counteract the evil so that I shall still be pure of stain." And one can let oneself off the hook by telling oneself that there are substances to be placed into the animals' mouths and words that can be whispered in their ears and impressed upon their minds so that they will not remain in the lower realms. But to do all this reveals a complete failure to grasp the meaning of the Buddha's teaching. It is a perversion of the Dharma."
- Shabkar Tsogdruk RangdrolFood of Bodhisattvas: Buddhist Teachings on Abstaining from Meat

"Although one can sympathize with lay person trying to break their attachment to a diet featuring meat, it is something else again to extend those sympathies to monks, priests, and teachers. What business have these latter to propound the Dharma when they possess neither the perception nor compassion to see the connection between meat eating and the killing of harmless animals, and when they lack the self-discipline to put Buddhist compassion before the pleasure on their palates' What right have they to wear the Buddha's robes when they won't or can't honor the bodhisattva vows they recite daily to liberate all beings?"
~ Roshi Philip Kapleau
To Cherish All Life

"Buddhism cannot be true to itself until Buddhists resolve their ambivalence toward nonhuman animals and extend the full protection of their compassion to the most harmless and helpless of those who live at our mercy in the visible realms."
~ Norm Phelps

The Great Compassion: Buddhism & Animal Rights
"Buddhism teaches the doctrine of karma, which is the law of cause and effect relating to our actions. Karma means that whatever one sows, one reaps, be it good or evil. The consequences of meritorious acts are always good. Evil acts, on the other hand, ensure painful retribution. Buddhists are aware that we are constantly creating new karma by our actions. One who believes in the law of causation, therefore, will be careful not to cause pain to people, animals, plants, or the earth itself, for harming them is simultaneously harming oneself."
~ Ven. Sunyana Graef

The Foundations of Ecology in Zen Buddhism
"Usually when people look at the Buddhist precepts, they understand them in terms of human relationships " Do not kill. Do not steal. Do not lie. Of course these are about human relationships, but what do they mean in terms of the environment? There is a particular kind of stealing that we do when we clear-cut forests, when topsoil is washed into rivers. There is a particular kind of killing that we do when we wipe out whole species. These precepts are taught not only as they relate to humans but also how they relate to the environment, to the ten thousand things. Not only the sentient, 'feeling' beings'deer, muskrat, beaver' but to the rocks, trees and river. All of it."
~ John Daido Loori Roshi
"Zen's Radical Conservative," Shambhala Sun, July 2001

"The beginning of mindful eating is the realization that eating meat is not about the meat-eater; it is about the animals who are tormented and killed."
~ Norm Phelps
The Great Compassion: Buddhism & Animal Rights

"Farmed animals are not future Buddhas donating their flesh out of compassion for those of us who have developed a craving for it. They are victims of our greed from whom we steal the most precious gift any of us has: life."
~ Norm Phelps
The Great Compassion: Buddhism & Animal Rights

"Aware of the suffering caused by the destruction of life, I am committed to cultivating compassion and learning ways to protect the lives of people, animals, plants, and minerals. I am determined not to kill, not to let others kill, and not to support any act of killing in the world, in my thinking, and in my way of life."
~ The First Mindfulness Training, Thich Nhat Hanh
The Heart of Buddha's Teaching

"Buddhism teaches us that all our suffering issues from our desires. A desirous mind state generates harmfulness in all its forms, both toward others, and toward ourselves. As has been witnessed throughout the millennia in both monastic and strong lay practice in several traditions, when one goes without meat or fish, one may well find oneself released from the desire for these foods (although not instantly, of course) and one may even "soften" to the suffering of all creatures through a closer identity with them. Vegetarianism can be an aid to learning to live a life of actions taken outside the realm of doing harm. It is hard to say, in fact, which may come first, and which way the cycle may spiral " non meat eating leading to sympathy for the plight of animals, or growing sympathy arising from deep and dedicated spiritual practice leading to a gathering unwillingness to cause harm by supporting animal slaughter. But it becomes clear, along the road to vegetarianism, that the less meat one desires, the closer one feels toward all life, the more harmless one feels, and the more aware of the suffering of the helpless beasts one is. If, and possibly only if, vegetarianism is supported by involved and sincere spiritual practice, it serves to soften us up. It actually (forgive me) tenderizes us. "
~ Sensei Sevan Ross
Vegetarianism and Zen Practice

"The perpetuators of the Buddha dharma have a moral responsibility to the rest of humanity to be at the forefront of the change away from blood-letting and killing, and not surreptitiously fostering it because of their lack of will to change their habits or mode of thinking concerning the animal kingdom."
~ Bodo Balsys
Ahimsa Buddhism and the Vegetarian Ideal

"If a man can control his body and mind and thereby refrains from eating animal flesh and wearing animal products, I say he will really be liberated."
~ The Buddha
From the Surangama Sutra


"People who eat meat often make the excuse that it is natural to do so, that people were meant to eat meat. They promote this idea, and then freely indulge in taking the lives of their fellow creatures, thereby creating extensive hatred and enmity-karma. "
~ Great Master Lianchi Zhuhung
On Stopping Killing!

"Buddhism regards all living creatures as being endowed with the Buddha nature and the potential to become Buddhas. That's why Buddhism teaches us to refrain from killing and to liberate creatures instead."
~ Venerable Master Hsuan Hua
Liberating Life

"When virtuous mental attitudes, like mindfulness, respect, and compassion, are invoked to justify nonvirtuous acts like hunting, fishing, and eating animal products, the mental attitudes are insincere. They are self-deceptions that we create to justify habits that in our hearts we know are wrong, but to which we have become attached."
~ Norm Phelps
The Great Compassion: Buddhism & Animal Rights



As a man values his life.

So do animals love theirs.

Releasing life accords with the mind of heaven;

Releasing life agrees with the teaching of the Buddha.

Releasing life unties the snare of hatred;

Releasing life purifies the taint of sin.

Releasing life enables one to escape the three disasters;

Releasing life enables one to be free from the nine kinds of untimely deaths.

Releasing life enables one to love long;

Releasing life enables one to rise high in an official career;

Releasing life enables one to gave many children;

Releasing life enables one to have a prosperous household.

Releasing life dispels anxieties and worries;

Releasing life reduces sickness and pain.

Releasing life is the compassion Kuan-yin;

Releasing life is the deed of P'u-hsien.

By releasing life one comes to realize the truth of no birth.

By releasing life one ends transmigration.
~ Chu-hung
Releasing Life, on the act of buying and releasing animal meant for slaughter (as cited in Religious Vegetarianism)

"These days many voices proclaim the sanctity of human life. Human life should of course be valued highly, but at the same time the lives of other living beans should also be treasured. Human beings snatch away the lives of other creatures whenever it suits their purposes. The way of thinking that encourages this behavior arises from a specifically human brand of violence that defiles the self-evident laws of the universe, opposes the growth of the myriad things in nature, and destroys feelings of compassion and reverence arising from our Buddha-nature. In view of such needless destruction of life, it is essential that laymen and monks together conscientiously uphold this precept."
~ Hakuun Yasutani-roshi on the Precept of Non-Harm
As quoted in To Cherish All Life

"Perhaps it is part of being human to question who and what we are. Unfortunately, because we rely almost exclusively on our senses, the harder we look, the more we misinterpret what we see. We believe on the one hand that we are an insignificant dot in the universe, separate from all other humans, much less the natural world. But we also believe that we are the most highly evolved organism in creation, entitled to use whatever we can grasp for our own ends.

"Buddhists have a different view of humanity. In terms of their psycho-spiritual development people stand about midway between Buddhas and amoebas. However, on an absolute level, people, Buddhas, amoebas, dogs, streams, and mountains are one and the same. Buddhism addresses the apparent disparity between what we see and what we actually are. And it does so by delving into the roots of what it means to be human."
~ Ven. Sunyana Graef
The Foundations of Ecology in Zen Buddhism
Sayings of the Buddha from the Lankavatara Sutra:~

"For innumerable reasons, Mahamati, the Bodhisattva, whose nature is compassion, is not to eat any meat."
~ "For fear of causing terror to living beings, Mahamati, let the Bodhisattva who is disciplining himself to attain compassion, refrain from eating flesh."
~ "Meat is not agreeable to the wise: it has a nauseating odor, it causes a bad reputation, it is food for the carnivorous; I say this, Mahamati, it is not to be eaten."
~ "From eating meat arrogance is born, from arrogance erroneous imaginations issue, and from imagination is born greed; and for this reason refrain from eating meat."
~ "Meat-eating is condemned by the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and Sravakas; if one devours meat out of shamelessness he will always be devoid of sense."
~ "Therefore, do not eat meat which will cause terror among people, because it hinders the truth of emancipation; not to eat meat? this is the mark of the wise."
"A person of the deepest spirituality will also have a tender concern for every aspect of creation. Such an individual could no more harm a living creature than he or she could harm himself or herself. Buddhist scriptures contend that a bodhisattva will not even walk on grass lest it be harmed. Indeed, the first Buddhist precept is the admonition not to kill, but to cherish all life. This attitude is especially important with respect to food, since anything we eat must die to sustain us. Still, it is less destructive, on a relative level, to take the life of a carrot or an apple than to take that of a more highly evolved form of life, such as a cow, a chicken, or a lobster. Too, from a purely ecological point of view, it is less detrimental to the environment to eat as low as possible on the food chain. All this explains why many Buddhists are vegetarians."
~ Ven. Sunyana Graef
The Foundations of Ecology in Zen Buddhism

"It is sad to see how many American Buddhists are managing to find a self-satisfying accommodation to eating meat. Some airily cite the doctrine of Emptiness, insisting that ultimately there is no killing and no sentient being being killed. Others find cover behind the excuse that taking life is the natural order of things and, after all, "the life of a carrot and that of a cow are equal." The truth is, though, that as humans we are endowed with discriminating minds that we can use to educate ourselves to the implications of our volitional acts and to choose those foods that minimize suffering to living beings."
~ Bodhin Kjolhede
"A Debate on Food and Practice," Tricycle, Winter 1994

"This precept [of non-harm] includes non-killing of beings like ants, mosquitoes, and cockroaches."
~ Ven. U. Vimalaramsi
Comments from his translation of the Anapanasuti Sutta

"When we hunt or fish, we deliberately kill a defenseless being who wishes us no harm. This is a direct violation of the First Precept. It is absolutely forbidden to Buddhists. As to eating meat, we know that the only way we can obtain it is for an animal to be killed. Therefore, when we eat meat, it is our intent that an innocent animal should die to satisfy our addiction to flesh. And that underlying intention, no matter how well hidden behind a smokescreen of rationalizations will block the growth of compassion and create negative karma."
~ Norm Phelps
The Great Compassion: Buddhism & Animal Rights

"Kill and eat is not a Buddhist principle."
~ Senaka Weeraratna
From "Export of meat products from Sri Lanka harms country's Buddhist image," Buddhist News Network.

"Veganism is simply letting compassion guide our choice of food. As such, it is a basic Buddhist practice that ought to be expected of everyone who takes refuge vows."
~ Norm Phelps
The Great Compassion: Buddhism & Animal Rights

"Sincere practitioners feel a natural, visceral compassion for the goats and sheep as if they were their old mothers. They will have nothing to do with killing them for the sake of meat. On the contrary, they save life eagerly; they ransom animals set aside for slaughter and release them. Otherwise, it is like trying to punch someone who isn't there. Showing compassion for animals after they have been killed and the meat is being eaten? reciting mantras for the animal?s sake? is nothing but a silly game."
-Shabkar Tsogdruk Rangdrol
Food of Bodhisattvas: Buddhist Teachings on Abstaining from Meat

"An understanding and acceptance of the theory of evolution is important because without that acceptance there is a perception of a great separation between humans and animals which simply is not true."
-David N. Snyder, Ph.D.
Right Understanding

"As the crisis of feeding the world's population grows, breeding of animals for human consumption becomes less acceptable" out of compassion for the suffering of animals and the awareness that it is a grossly inefficient use of water and grain. A new relationship with the animal kingdom is part of our changing perception of the Earth. Animals are part of us, and part of our practice."
~ Allan Hunt Badiner
Engaged Buddhist Reader

"The first precept in Buddhism is "Do not kill." This precept is not merely a legalistic prohibition, but a realization of our affinity with all who share the gift of life. A compassionate heart provides a firm ground for this precept."
~ Chatsumarn Kabilsingh
Engaged Buddhist Reader

"Human beings also kill animals not just for food. They take the animal's skin to make shoes and hats and clothes. And even that is not enough. They take these animal's bones to make necklaces or buttons or earrings. In short, they kill many, many animals in order to sell the animal parts for money. Because of these desires and this strong animal consciousness, human beings fight with each other, and destroy nature. They do not value life. So now this whole world has many problems; problems with the water, problems with the air, problems with the earth and food. Many new problems appear every day. These problems do not happen by accident. Human beings make each and every one of these problems. Dogs, cats, or lions, or snakes - no animal makes as many problems for this world as human beings do. Humans do not understand their true nature, so they use their thinking and desire to create so much suffering for this world. That is why some people say that human beings are the number one bad animal in this world. So human beings must soon wake up and find their original seeds, their original nature."
~ Zen Master Seung Sahn
The Compass of Zen

"As a Buddhist, we practice so as to benefit self and others hence we do the six-syllable mantra practice. However, when we eat meat be it chicken, pork, fish or eggs in our daily lives, we are creating immense negative karma. If on the one hand, we chant the mantra and on the other hand, we eat the meat of mother sentient beings, then our words and actions do not tally with one another. We are not doing as we preach. Can this be considered as loving kindness and compassion towards sentient beings" Is this doing good and abstaining from evil" We take refuge in the Buddha because his teachings could benefit all sentient beings. As a Buddhist, we should understand the essence of the Buddha's wisdom and teachings, which is to do good and abstain from committing evil deeds. Abstaining from evil means that we have to keep our precepts. Hence we should not take meat. When we are sick, old or near death, we would go to the doctor, we would practice and do anything possible to extend our lifespan. However, when we take meat, we are killing sentient beings that are healthy. How great is our compassion and loving kindness if we treat sentient beings in such a manner? We should abstain from killing because it generates immense negative karma. Instead, we should develop loving kindness and compassion towards all sentient beings.

"In countless rebirth, all sentient beings have been our parents. When we took rebirth in the human realm, we had human parents; when we took rebirth in the animal realm, we had animal parents and so forth. Samsara is such. We need to generate a sense of gratitude towards our parents in this lifetime and those of our past lives. Hence, we should be vegetarians and abstain from taking meat. In such a way, we would do good and give meaning to our practice. By doing so, our practice of the six-syllable mantra would be able to benefit ourselves and others, and also aid in the flourishing of the Dharma. There are some people who say that their doctor has advised them against becoming vegetarians, as they would suffer from malnutrition. This is a sign that the determination of these people is not strong enough. For if one has strong determination, one would avoid doing evil deeds at all cost and under any circumstances. Hence in our daily lives, we should stop committing the negative deed of eating meat. On this basis, the merits generated from our refuge and practice of the six-syllable mantra would be inconceivable. We should try to change our lifestyle towards vegetarianism. We would certainly face difficulties in becoming full vegetarians. However, when such obstacles arise, we should remember how every sentient being had at one point or another been our parents. When we remember this, then we would not take meat just as we would not eat the meat of our parents of this lifetime."
~ His Eminence Druwang Konchok Norbu Rinpoche
100 Million Six-Syllable Mantra Retreat

"Put your picket signs up if you are true compassionate Buddhists trying to walk the Bodhisattva path; and help end the war against animals. A little one sided war of course, but many forget that it is actually a war and that the animals are the innocent casualties of war. But there is no Geneva convention as to how to best look after these prisoners of human predatoriness, so people continue to entertain and feed themselves on the slaughtered bodies of those whim they have captured and then bred for their gluttony."
~ Bodo BalsysAhimsa Buddhism and the Vegetarian Ideal

"The member of Buddha's order "should not intentionally destroy the life of any being, down even to a worm or an ant."
~ Mahagga (khandhaka 1, ch. 79)

"Whether now any man kill with his own hand, or command any other to kill, or whether he only see with pleasure the act of killing - all is equally forbidden by this law, and many other things which cannot be described one by one."
Sha-mi-lu-I-yao-lio

"To save countless beings,
Not omitting even the least in his intention."
~ Ph'u-king (kiouen 2)

"Be kind to all that lives."
~ Fo-sho-hing-tsan-king (v. 2, 024)

"I love living things that have no feet "four-footed creatures, and things with many feet" May all creatures, all things that live, all beings of whatever kind, may they all behold good fortune."
~ Cullavagga (khandhaka 5, ch. 6)

"Every variety of living creature I must ever defend from harm."
~ Ta-chwang-yan-ling-lun (sermon 62)


Przepraszam za tak przytlaczający ilością materiał dowodowy, choć tak naprawdę wcale nie jest mi przykro, że jest tego tyle [a nawet więcej] jest. :lol:


Wt cze 05, 2007 13:43
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Dołączył(a): Pn maja 29, 2006 12:06
Posty: 4608
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JakubN napisał(a):
To ja może postram się wyklarować całą sprawę. W buddyzmie nie na absolutnego nakazu wegetarianizmu. Jedyną religią, która obligatoryjnie od wszystkich swoich członków wymaga wegatarianizmu jest dżinizm [jainism].

Dziękuję, o to właśnie chodziło - o stwierdzenie, ze buddyzm sam w sobie, w swej istocie i w całości "nie jest wegetariański", ponieważ używasz jednak czasami ogólników i mogło się wydawać, że tak właśnie może być.

Natomiast ze swojej strony zgadzam się, że wiele szkół buddyjskich uznaje wegetarianizm za właściwe i moralnie pozytywne uzupełnienie nauk Buddy.

_________________
"Diabolus enim et alii daemones a Deo quidem natura creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali"
Obrazek
"Inter faeces et urinam nascimur".


Wt cze 05, 2007 15:08
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Jejku, jak miło się z kimś wreszcie na tym forum zgodzić. Dzięki filippiarzu, to ja może już odejdę od kompa, pókim w dobrym nastroju. :D

BTW, zachęcam Cię [i innych] ponownie do obejrzenia filmu "Earthlings". Naprawdę warto. W końcu niczym nie ryzykujecie, poza straconymi 90 minutami. Ale idę o zakład, że jakkoliwek byśnie do niego nie podeszli, nie będziecie żałować... BTW, mam polskie napisy i jak ktoś ściągnie film, to mogę podesłać mailem. A film sam jest tu:
http://dl.veg-tv.info/Earthlings.avi


Wt cze 05, 2007 16:10

Dołączył(a): Pt cze 08, 2007 20:01
Posty: 1
Post 
Hej, a tutaj można znaleźć wszelkiego rodzaju informacje o zdrowotnej stronie wegetarianizmu, w miarę obiektywne - takie rzeczy jak kwasy omega3 czy witamina b12.

wegetarianizm


Pt cze 08, 2007 22:02
Zobacz profil WWW
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Ha, no proszę i nawet jakieś nowe vege-forum się tworzy. :-)

Aha, na takie cudowne rzeczy trafiłem, że nie mogę się z Wami nie podzielić - to koszulki z nadrukami, jakie można kupić w jednym z e-sklepów. Enjoy!!! :D



Obrazek

Obrazek

Obrazek

Obrazek

Obrazek

Obrazek

Pomidor doprowadził mnie do łez. :biggrin:


Pt cze 08, 2007 23:26
Post 
Hmmm, jako że jakiś czas temu dyskusja zamarła, trzeba ją wskrzesić. Chciałbym Wam zadać pytanie, zupełnie nieagresywne i myślę, że dość zasadnicze.

Co powstrzymuje Was przed przejściem na vegetarianizm?

I pytam całkiem serio:
@ Może to względy rodzinne?
@ Może konieczność zmiany diety i związane z tym chwilowe kłopoty?
@ Może brak przekonania, że robiąc to, robi się coś dobrego?
@ Może obawy zdrowotne?
@ Może względy smakowe?
@ Może nie lubicie, jak niektórzy userzy, nowości z Azji? ;-)

Bardzo jestem ciekaw, bo może, gdybym wiedział, potrafiłbym sensownie odpowiedzieć na wątpliwości.

Pozdrawiam serdecznie, powoli zaczynając myśleć o nauce [ech, ta sesja],
Jakub


So cze 09, 2007 19:15
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